The SteelSeries Rival is a very solid mouse, but it's also very specialized: I have a feeling if you need this mouse, you know about it already. The key feature of the Rival 500 is the sheer amount of programmable buttons this thing has. With 15 different buttons in tow, it's basically a keyboard replacement! This is a setup that's ideal for games with lots of macros of cooldown skills—think MMOs or even MOBAs.
This price range has some reliable standards. You'll get a 15-inch 1920 x 1080 display (in many cases a crisp IPS one), an Intel Core-5 CPU, a 1TB hard drive, medium- sized SSD, or a hybrid 1TB drive. Graphics card choices will be mostly limited to an Nvidia GTX 1050 or GTX 1050 Ti; the latter represents a 15 to 20 percent performance uplift over Nvidia's entry-level GTX 1050 and AMD's Radeon RX 560. It's worth the extra money if you're willing to spend it. All GTX 1050 Ti cards also includes a satisfactory 4GB of VRAM versus the normal 2GB present in most GTX 1050s.
As far as the gaming performance of this laptop is concerned, the HP 15-ay191ms comes with the 7th Generation Intel Core i3 processor paired with the 8GB of RAM and 1TB of hard drive for storage. Thanks to the integrated Intel HD graphics this laptop can run some of the popular older games at low to medium graphics settings. Moreover, the audio on this laptop is powered by DTS Studio Sound which makes watching movies and gaming on this laptop more immersive.
This big, badass notebook ($3,712 from Origin) pushes the pedal to the metal with the most potent hardware available, and then Origin PC cranks things to 11 by overclocking both the full-fat GeForce GTX 1080 and the Core i7-8700K processor. Yes, this laptop rocks a desktop processor, and not just any desktop processor—it’s the fastest one currently available. With 6 cores and 12 threads, the EON17-X demolishes CPU benchmarks. It blazes through triple-A games. Hell, it might be able to literally crush its slim, trim Nvidia Max-Q competition.
For many years, the term “gaming laptop” referred to a highly powerful, exceedingly expensive, very large, and extravagant looking computer that usually had very limited battery autonomy. It was more or less equivalent to a high-end desktop computer that had the advantage of being portable (and which was generally used to showcase its manufacturer’s most advanced hardware).
Regardless of the low color accuracy (blue cast ex-works), the Full HD panel shows real potential, and the sound and picture quality are also very persuasive. The 120 Hz display refresh rate and the Nvidia’s G-Sync technology combo averts hard to watch tearing and offers much smoother picture. However, the 100% sRGB and 75% AdobeRGB are still kept for workstations and other professional devices only, very suited for design and photo editing.
Play without limits thanks to this Logitech G305 wireless mouse. The ultra-fast response time delivers tiny twitches in as little as 1 ms, and the next-generation Logitech G HERO optical sensor produces competition-level accuracy. This Logitech G305 wireless mouse is extremely light at 99 g, and built-in storage lets you stow the wireless sensor safely for transport.
Now we have done all the hard part for the users and have come up with the most powerful and a complete value for money gaming laptops under $500. Each laptop in the list above excels over one another in terms of either one or more specs. However, we suggest our readers to go through the entire list before making their choice to find their perfect next laptop.
We checked out all best sales from all the major retailers, including Best Buy, the Microsoft Store, Walmart, and B&H, and have compiled the hottest sales on laptops for you below. Simply read our brief descriptions, and scroll through and then click the “Buy Now” button on the laptop or 2-in-1 you’d like to buy. A new tab will open up and you’ll be sent to your retailer and product page to complete your purchase. We’ll update these deals, and keep you up to speed with all the freshest deals as the annual holiday shopping season progresses.
Gaming systems have higher-end components than run-of-the-mill consumer laptops, so their prices will be consequently higher, but the range across the category is huge: from under a grand to $5,000 and up. The best budget gaming laptops start at $800 and can go up to about $1,250. For that, you get a system that can play games at 1,366-by-768 resolution on high graphics quality settings, or at a full HD (1080p) resolution with the details turned down some. Storage may be a hard drive, or a modest-capacity solid-state drive (SSD).
NEWARK, Calif. & LAUSANNE, Switzerland--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Logitech International (SIX: LOGN) (Nasdaq: LOGI) today announced that it has closed its acquisition of ASTRO Gaming, a leading console gaming brand with a history of producing award-winning headsets for professional gamers and enthusiasts. Logitech first announced its agreement to acquire ASTRO in July 2017, as the Company invests in an adjacent gaming market — the console gaming market.
A 15-inch gamer still won't be an ideal daily traveler, but most are a lot more manageable than their larger kin. Also, today's 15-inch gaming rigs are better suited for use in true mobile fashion—that is, off an AC power plug—than those of past years. We've seen a few hit six or more hours of battery life, albeit in everyday productivity use or playing back video; gaming will trim that number considerably. (See our picks for the laptops with the best battery life.)
One of the typical features that sets apart a gaming laptop is a colorful, backlit keyboard. These vary quite a bit from model to model, with more elaborate backlighting going hand-in-hand with higher prices and a higher general level of other components. Almost all budget gaming laptops will employ single-color backlighting (most often, red or white) to keep costs down. The next step up is lighting programmable by zone, with three or four blocks of the keyboard independently customizable in different colors, but this is not common in budget machines. Keyboards with per-key, individually programmable lighting are the province of high-end machines only.
The Dell G7 15 Gaming is the best gaming laptop for people on a budget. It has an excellent price-to-performance ratio, and its Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 Max-Q graphics will play games on high to medium settings for years. The G7 keeps its most-touched surfaces and innards cool enough that the laptop stays comfortable to use during extended gaming sessions, and its screen, keyboard, and trackpad are all solid. It has impressive battery life (for a gaming laptop) too. But the G7 is a bit heavier than the competition, and its fans get distractingly loud during gaming sessions, so plan to use headphones.
Before we forget, let's talk memory. In a gaming laptop, look for at least 8GB of RAM. (In practice, no self-respecting model will come with less.) That will give you some breathing room when switching back and forth between your gameplay window and your messaging app, but we'd save researching game tips for when you're not playing, as each successive browser window you open eats into your RAM allotment.
Ready to incite a sharp twinge of envy with the best gaming laptops of South Africa? Well, the ardent gamers in South Africa might not miss out in doing so while they flaunt their sleek laptops having slender frames built by cutting-edge innovation. Endowed with powerful i7 processors that allow maximum overclocking, GPU performance of enormous capacity, immense memory up to 32GB, widescreen display with anti-glare feature to ensure extreme clarity, vivid colors with peak audio, good battery life, high storage with possibly 1TB solid state drive; you are in for some amazing surprises. No wonder it might come with a hefty price tag, but the best laptop deals can lower the price to a minimum. Latest deals can allow a gamer to get the laptop at a much lower value than the market price while offering a huge prospect to increase savings.
Best ListsBest GadgetsBest Wireless RoutersBest DSLR CamerasBest 4k TVsBest 65 Inch TVsBest 70 Inch TVsBest Home ProjectorsBest Home SecurityBest HoverboardsBest Office ChairsBest Standing DesksBest Xbox One HeadsetsDIRECTV vs. DISHBest Air ConditionersBest MicrowavesTVsProjectorsDLP ProjectorsLCD ProjectorsLED ProjectorsPortable ProjectorsUltra HD 4K TVsLCD TVsLED TVsOLED TVsSmart TVsSatellite TVAudioHeadphonesBluetooth HeadphonesNoise Cancelling HeadphonesOver the Ear HeadphonesHome AudioHome Theater SpeakersHome Theater SystemsSpeakersBluetooth SpeakersComputer SpeakersPortable SpeakersWireless SpeakersCamerasDSLR CamerasPoint and Shoot Cameras3D CamerasVideo CamerasVlogging CamerasWaterproof CamerasHome Security CamerasSmart Home Security CamerasComputersDesktop ComputersComputer AccessoriesWireless RoutersPrintersComputer MonitorsLaptop ComputersChromebooksUltrabooksLaptops for CollegeAppliancesKitchenCoffee MakersBlendersMicrowavesRefrigeratorsToaster OvensToastersHome & OfficeStanding DesksOffice ChairsSmart Home AutomationHome Security SystemsHome Security CamerasMattress ReviewsVacuum CleanersAir PurifiersWashing MachinesGamingVideo Game ConsolesVideo GamesGaming LaptopsGaming PCsGaming AccessoriesGaming KeyboardsGaming MonitorsGaming ChairsGaming HeadsetsOutdoorCamping GearHiking GearSkiingLawnmowersGrillsHoverboardsKayaksRadar DetectorsElectronic CigarettesBest ListsBest GadgetsBest Wireless RoutersBest DSLR CamerasBest 4k TVsBest 65 Inch TVsBest 70 Inch TVsBest Home ProjectorsBest Home SecurityBest HoverboardsBest Office ChairsBest Standing DesksBest Xbox One HeadsetsDIRECTV vs. DISHBest Air ConditionersBest MicrowavesTVsProjectorsDLP ProjectorsLCD ProjectorsLED ProjectorsPortable ProjectorsUltra HD 4K TVsLCD TVsLED TVsOLED TVsSmart TVsSatellite TVAudioHeadphonesBluetooth HeadphonesNoise Cancelling HeadphonesOver the Ear HeadphonesHome AudioHome Theater SpeakersHome Theater SystemsSpeakersBluetooth SpeakersComputer SpeakersPortable SpeakersWireless SpeakersCamerasDSLR CamerasPoint and Shoot Cameras3D CamerasVideo CamerasVlogging CamerasWaterproof CamerasHome Security CamerasSmart Home Security CamerasComputersDesktop ComputersComputer AccessoriesWireless RoutersPrintersComputer MonitorsLaptop ComputersChromebooksUltrabooksLaptops for CollegeAppliancesKitchenCoffee MakersBlendersMicrowavesRefrigeratorsToaster OvensToastersHome & OfficeStanding DesksOffice ChairsSmart Home AutomationHome Security SystemsHome Security CamerasMattress ReviewsVacuum CleanersAir PurifiersWashing MachinesGamingVideo Game ConsolesVideo GamesGaming LaptopsGaming PCsGaming AccessoriesGaming KeyboardsGaming MonitorsGaming ChairsGaming HeadsetsOutdoorCamping GearHiking GearSkiingLawnmowersGrillsHoverboardsKayaksRadar DetectorsElectronic CigarettesSearch on Gadget Review Home ▸ Reviews ▸ Electronic Reviews ▸ Computers ▸ Laptop Computers ▸ Gaming Laptop Reviews ▸ Best Gaming Laptop Gaming LaptopsBest Gaming Laptop – The Beginner’s Guide to Portable Gaming Chris Stobing Updated December 28, 2017 We've picked the best laptops for gaming money can buy.Share11Pin2Tweet+1Share13 SharesAre you in the market to find the best gaming laptop in 2018, but aren’t sure where to start looking? “It should just be like any gaming peripheral”, you might be saying to yourself, “bigger and badder is better, right?”. Not entirely, as we learned in our best gaming PC list last week.As you’ll find out in this review roundup, picking the top gaming laptop off the proverbial shelf isn’t always a simple matter of just pitting the best specs against the rest.
We also liked that the laptop, despite its very thin 0.8 inches, features a lot of connectivity. You get two USB 2.0, two USB 3.0, a LAN jack, HDMI, plus a card reader. It's a great setup, leaving no modern ports left to be desired. Speaking of modern, the ASUS Metal also sports a very good anti-glare display, plus dual fan cooling to keep the laptop running smooth during gaming sessions.
German brand Roccat is well versed when it comes to crafting satisfying gaming peripherals, be it keyboards, headsets or this rather good (and not too expensive) mouse. The Kone Aimo is quite bulky and a little plasticky, but we can’t fault the comfort levels during lengthy online sessions. And if you like LEDs, Roccat hasn’t disappointed there either. You can make the Kone glow all kinds of funky hues from every crack and pore.
To muddy the waters, Nvidia in 2017 introduced a technology called Max-Q Design that squeezes a slightly detuned GeForce chip into thinner and lighter notebooks than would normally be possible, at the expense of 10 to 15 percent of the chip's performance. Because Max-Q tends to be implemented in thin, premium machines, it's seldom a factor among the under-$1,000 brigade, but it's good to know what it is, in case you encounter the term when shopping. (A few models just above the one-grand line incorporate the tech.) You may be interested in a Max-Q rig if maximum portability—not a trait usually associated with gaming laptops—matters to you.
This big, loud, no-holds-barred system delivers a much different value proposition than most gaming laptops do. If you’re doing heavy-duty work that can take advantage of the desktop Core i7-8700K’s abundant threads and high clock rate, no other laptop we’ve tested is even in the same ballpark as Origin’s beast. If you want a best-in-class gaming experience that pushes frame rates as high as possible in a self-contained, portable (enough) form factor, the EON17-X can’t be beat. Jump on this notebook if you’re looking for a true high-end desktop replacement rather than a powerful laptop that lets you game on the road.
I looked at that one. My sager 9873 (the clevo at the bottom of the list) runs circles around it. I have the z170+7700k model with 1080sli and asus is overpriced in comparison. So for a starting price of $2800 i got a SOCKETED desktop i7 and DUAL 1080'S with a 120hz 1440p gsync monitor. That asus uses a wattage throttled u series cpu and a single 1080 for $900 more. Dont get me wrong, i love asus products, my rog spatha is excellent, but please dont call that the best one, not in the desktop replacement category. Go to notebook review forums and open the bga elitist forum and say that. You will be laughed out of that thread. Not that i have an upgrade path, but i can replace my cpu. Right there, match that with that asus. And to anyone who is wondering, xiotic is the worst place to buy a clevo. Sager is good, and cheaper, and where i got mine, but if you can afford it go to eurocom. Unlocked bios, options to get your cpu delidded fron silicon lottery, and they also make a custom power supply for it. And in case you were wondering, cpu stays at 4.5ghz, all core, and my gpu's, yes plural, use a clevo specific mxm that keeps them around 1750. The 32Gb of 2666 ddr4 is probably why my cpu overclocks just that little bit, and i 'got lucky' with my silicon. But a U in the cpu is evil in this category, even HK. My 'laptop' has even gotten me laid, once, and she never called back, but still....
Looking to buy a new laptop for yourself or that someone special on your list this holiday season? After an October packed with fresh new device reveals from Google, Microsoft, and Apple, and other major companies, now is the perfect time to head to the shops. There are plenty of good sales on MacBooks, gaming laptops, sleek and light Windows 2-in-1s, Surface devices, and more for Cyber Monday.
Latest in Gaming LaptopsNew Alienware 13 Comes with VR Specs – And Means BusinessMSI GT73VR Gaming Laptop ReviewMSI GE62VR Apache Pro Gaming Laptop ReviewTurn Your Xbox One S into a Laptop with XBOOKMSI GS60 Ghost Pro 4K Gaming Laptop ReviewBest Gaming Laptop Video CardBest Gaming Laptop for the MoneyGaming Laptop ComparisonASUS ROG Strix GL502VT Gaming Laptop ReviewBest Gaming Laptop Under $1500Asus ROG Strix is the Compact Gaming Laptop You’ve Been Looking ForBest Gaming Laptops To Buy Under $1,000 in 2018Best Gaming Laptop Under $2,000MSI GT80S 6QE Gaming Laptop Review Our Top CategoriesAppliancesAudioCoffee MakersComputersDigital CamerasElectronicsGamingHeadphonesKitchen AppliancesLaptopsMicrowavesSecurityTelevisionsVacuum Cleaners
Ebuyer (UK) Limited acts as a broker and offers credit from PayPal Credit and Close Brothers. PayPal Credit is a trading name of PayPal (Europe) S.à.r.l. et Cie, S.C.A., 22-24 Boulevard Royal L-2449, Luxembourg. Close Brothers Retail Finance is a trading style of Close Brothers Limited - a subsidiary of Close Brothers Group plc. Close Brothers Limited is authorised by the Prudential Regulation Authority and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and Prudential Regulation Authority. Registered Address: 10 Crown Place, London EC2A 4FT. Registered at Companies House Number 195626.
For many years, the speakers built into gaming laptops did not provide sufficiently good audio quality to take full advantage of a video game’s sound effects and in-game music. Nowadays, some gaming laptops integrate a very sophisticated audio system capable of offering advanced performance, deep bass tones, and adequate power (some examples include the Asus Rog Zephyrus and the MSI GS65 Stealth). For lower-end computers, there is always the possibility of connecting external Bluetooth/WiFi speakers or a good pair of headphones.
Some manufacturers have opted for an intermediate and less expensive solution; that is to say, a hybrid hard drive (SSHD) which incorporates a very small SSD (8 GB) in order to optimize the storage system’s performance. However, the performance of this type of drive remains slightly inferior to that of a fully fledged SSD. Intel’s Optane technology is used on some of these hybrid systems, and it works quite well…
It is powered by an AMD Ryzen 5 quad-core processor clocked at 2.0 GHz and is paired with a 8GB of RAM. Storage department is handled by a massive 1TB of HDD which offers ample space to store all your games and other data. It doesn’t have a backlit enabled keyboard, but it does come with dedicated number pad and generously-spaced keys for comfortable typing experience.
You can also get a sweet deal by going back in time and looking at laptops with previous-gen CPUs, as they are usually available at fire sale prices and there's not a huge difference in performance between Skylake and Kaby Lake for gaming. You won't be quite as future-proof, but you'll still get several years of great 1080p gaming at a low price. Let's dive into the top picks a cheap gaming laptop:
The keyboard is said to have quite a bit of flex, taking away from the VivoBook F510UA-AH51’s premium feel. ASUS have fitted the laptop with a 1920 X 1080 IPS NanoEdge display, which has an awesome 80 percent screen-to-body ratio. ASUS have cut some corners with the storage, opting for a slow 1TB 5400RPM HDD as opposed to an SSD. This is going to make applications and boot times rather slow and tedious sadly, but the other hardware does compensate for this.
Heat: A gaming laptop’s GPU and CPU produce a lot of heat. Without an effective cooling system, the machine will overheat, which can slow gaming performance, shorten the laptop’s lifespan, or even burn you.1 No gaming laptop can keep completely cool—all that heat has to go somewhere. But it needs to keep its internals, the WASD keys (the most-used section of the keyboard for gamers, as those four keys often control in-game movement), and the left palm rest (where your left hand rests while using the WASD keys) cool. It’s a bit more forgivable for the laptop to get hot in areas with less direct contact with your skin, such as the underside and the strip above the keyboard.
If you want a gaming laptop for less than $1,000, get the Lenovo Legion Y530. Because of its lower-powered graphics card, the Y530 won’t play demanding games as well for as many years to come as our top pick, but it keeps cool and has a bright screen, a comfortable keyboard, and a responsive trackpad. The Y530 is also about a pound lighter and significantly more compact than the Dell G7 and G5, but it’s a pain to upgrade. We recommend the model with an Nvidia GeForce GTX 1050 Ti graphics processor with 4 GB of dedicated memory, an Intel Core i5-8300H processor, 8 GB of RAM, a 128 GB solid-state drive, and a 1 TB hard drive. But if the Y530 costs more than $900 at the time you’re shopping, we recommend saving up for our top pick and its more powerful graphics processor instead.
Resolution: Never get anything less than a 1920 x 1080 display. It’s rare to find one with a lesser resolution, but if you do, run. If you have a GTX 1070 or GTX 1080, you may want to consider a 2560 x 1440 display. 4K (3840 x 2160) screens are an option on some gaming laptop, but it’s rare you’ll be able to both get enough graphical fidelity at that resolution while also maintaining a smooth frame rate.
The Y530 kept its GPU among the coolest, along with our other picks, at 160°F (71 °C) after 30 minutes of Overwatch and 163 °F (73 °C) after the same time playing The Witcher 3. Its CPU hit 207 °F (97 °C) in both tests, which is about average and what we expect to see in this category. (That may seem extremely hot, but it’s not cause for alarm for these processors.)
Given that high-end components tend to drain battery life, don't plan on taking any of these gaming rigs too far from a wall socket very often. Cutting-edge ports like USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 are beneficial now, and will only be more so down the road, but look for at least two USB 3.0 ports so you can plug in an external mouse and a hard drive for your saved media files. If you mean to attach a VR headset to your GeForce GTX 1060-or-better rig, look for the right loadout of ports to accommodate it; you'll need a well-placed video out and enough USB ports for the hydra-head of cabling. Other video ports, like HDMI or Mini DisplayPort, will be helpful if you want to play games on an external display, but aren't absolutely necessary if your laptop's screen is large enough.
We made sure to test each gaming mouse thoroughly across a range of criteria. Is it comfortable to use for extended periods, and responsive enough for precision play? Can you customise the look and the feel? How many bonus buttons do you get and are they easy to reach? And if the mouse is wireless, how quickly and accurately does it respond to your clicks and nudges?
Dell has a couple of (more or less) entry-level product lines: the Inspiron 15 7000 Gaming (which is equipped with a GeForce GTX1050 graphics chip) and the more recent G3 (17″) and G5 (15″) which incorporate a GeForce GTX 1050, 1050 Ti or 1060 Max-Q graphics chip. One high-end G5 model is equipped with a 4K display. LaptopMag’s test highlights this computer’s good design, good-quality audio, good upgradability, and good overall performance. However, the poor performance of this computer’s display cast something of a cloud over its positive characteristics.
We put the contenders through much of the same rigorous testing as we do with our best gaming laptops. We tested each by playing half an hour of Overwatch on high settings—a popular game, but not too taxing—and then tested our finalists with a more graphically demanding game by playing 30 minutes of The Witcher 3 on ultra with VSync off. We also played Overwatch and Doom extensively to test how our finalists held up during longer gaming sessions.
Following this logic, we have witnessed the introduction of many relatively inexpensive gaming laptops such as the Acer V Nitro (later simply called Nitro), HP’s Omen, and Lenovo’s Legion computers. Retailing for around 800 to 900 dollars, these “entry-level” gaming laptops are equipped with a Core i5/GTX 1050 graphics chip/processor combo that is powerful enough for gaming (if you are not interested in playing the very latest games or are willing to trade some display quality for greater gameplay fluidity).
GPU or the graphics processing unit is considered to be the most vital part of the gaming laptops. This chip is doing the hard work, thereby providing you the eye candy. It is recommended to choose a laptop with a powerful GPU for running the most demanding games. The GTX 760M or Geforce GTX 850M happens to be the least requirement for those gaming laptops. You can also go for the laptop with GPU of 800 or GeForce GTX 700 series as they are recommended for the games of today.
All the way thru our review and usage, we never noticed eve a bit dim on the ASUS FX502VM display. Bright, filled with color, alive vivid look and wide angle viewing display is a rare feature. On our light meter during benchmarking, ASUS’s notebook detected an average brightness of 289 nits, which for a laptop from this class is an awesome leap from the others of the same class.
The Lenovo Legion Y530 lasted 5 hours, 4 minutes in our Web-browsing battery test—about half an hour short of the Dell G7, Dell G5, and HP Pavilion 15t, but longer than any other contenders. That isn’t long enough for the Y530 to survive a full day of work or classes, but gaming laptops aren’t known for their battery life, and the Y530 is still one of the most portable options.
Powering it is an 8th generation i5 CPU with four cores and eight threads, much like the one found in the Acer Aspire E15, though this one is a bit faster and can reach higher clock speeds. Then there’s the 8GB of DDR4 RAM, and storage that is handled a bit differently. Namely, the GV62 combines 16 GB of Intel Optane memory with a 1 TB hard drive, balancing the performance of SSDs with the capacity of HDDs quite well.
A laptop based around the next-step-up GeForce GTX 1060, meanwhile, is ideal for no-compromise 1080p gaming. We've seen GTX 1060-based gaming rigs priced anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000. The biggest values are likely to be found in this lot, and the GTX 1060 is the baseline for using your laptop with a virtual reality (VR) headset. (See our picks for the best laptops for VR.)
Games are powered by the laptop's GeForce GT 940M GPU (2GB dedicated video memory), paired with 8GB DDR3L 1600 MHz RAM. It's a smart combination for this price class, capable of playing most games flawlessly. Besides the gaming performance this laptop made it to this top list because of its many additional features. We like the large 1TB storage which is very future proof. Additionally, ASUS packed this laptop with lots of connectivity: You get ultra-fast 802.11AC Wi-Fi, two USB 3.0 and one USB 2.0 ports, Bluetooth 4.0, plus HDMI and VGA ports. It's great to have such an abundance of ports.
The Lenovo Legion Y530 is the Porsche of budget gaming laptops. Its minimalist design and blackout color scheme give it a suave look you'd associate with tuxedo-clad, big-screen villains. Outside of its stately good looks, you get a gaming notebook that offers a wide range of ports and a solid graphics card. It's a very good choice for casual gamers who want a sub-$1,000 laptop with a button-up design that can blend in -- and even impress -- no matter the setting.